What Next?
I have recently read George Barna's new book. He asserts, that from his research, the overwhelming majority of Christians say they do not feel a connection with God when they attend their local church. He goes on to predict that by the year 2025 about 70% of Christians will not be involved in a traditional local congregation. The people of whom he writes tend to give more liberally of their time and money than church goers, read their Bibles and pray more than their church going friends and have a more biblical world-view. These people, who Barna calls revolutionaries, also tend to be more involved in social justice issues.
He also states, that outside of the mega church movement, local congregations are declining at alarming rate.
I must admit I was skeptical that people could stay faithful without being involved in a congregational setting. However, Barna confirms some of the things I have been hearing and feeling from younger adults who I have worked with over the past several years.
In recent years, I have come to believe that congregations come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and one size does not fit all. I also believe what passes for church now is not really what the apostles practiced. I am not saying we ought to abandon our current model. I think our current model does work for many. I do believe that we (as the Army) may need to look at different models of church. Our definition of what a corps is may need to change. This is not something that is parroting Joe Noland. This is something that I have been thinking about for over 10 years. I am not sure why we need specific definitions for what we do, other than there are many who are not comfortable with something unless it is very well defined. We need accountability for sure. We also need to do what our heritage teaches us and adapt.
These revolutionaries will meet, but it may not be in a church/corps building. Revolutionaries may never attend a worship service as we define it, but will be intimate in their worship of God. I am not sure what this all means for the traditional Army or church.
So here is my question, what is next? I think we are perfectly positioned by heritage to include these revolutionaries in our mission. Do we radically change the way we do business now? Do we need to redefine church? Will we continue to see our local congregations decline? How will the new Kroc ministries help or hinder us in reaching those who are disenfranchised by the local Church, but who still love God?
What do you think?
He also states, that outside of the mega church movement, local congregations are declining at alarming rate.
I must admit I was skeptical that people could stay faithful without being involved in a congregational setting. However, Barna confirms some of the things I have been hearing and feeling from younger adults who I have worked with over the past several years.
In recent years, I have come to believe that congregations come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and one size does not fit all. I also believe what passes for church now is not really what the apostles practiced. I am not saying we ought to abandon our current model. I think our current model does work for many. I do believe that we (as the Army) may need to look at different models of church. Our definition of what a corps is may need to change. This is not something that is parroting Joe Noland. This is something that I have been thinking about for over 10 years. I am not sure why we need specific definitions for what we do, other than there are many who are not comfortable with something unless it is very well defined. We need accountability for sure. We also need to do what our heritage teaches us and adapt.
These revolutionaries will meet, but it may not be in a church/corps building. Revolutionaries may never attend a worship service as we define it, but will be intimate in their worship of God. I am not sure what this all means for the traditional Army or church.
So here is my question, what is next? I think we are perfectly positioned by heritage to include these revolutionaries in our mission. Do we radically change the way we do business now? Do we need to redefine church? Will we continue to see our local congregations decline? How will the new Kroc ministries help or hinder us in reaching those who are disenfranchised by the local Church, but who still love God?
What do you think?
posted by Larry at 9:05 AM
14 Comments:
Good questions, I agree that the whole church may not fit for all...the thing about churchs is the fellowship..without attending a church I would think it would be hard to have good fellowship.. although fellowship may not be right for some people...I think the Army needs change..I'm not sure what though..good thinking..
Che,
Thanks for your comment. Church as Barna describes it is more than just worship. I don't believe Barna is a proponent of leaving the congregation. Maybe he sees the handwriting on the wall?
I agree the local church will have a place. Maybe it will be in a botique fashion where people will find a style of community that will more fully satisfy their desire to know God.
I think a better definition of church is important here. Church, as defined by the New Testament, is anywhere two or more are gathered. Personally, I'm challenged much more, and experience much more intimate worship, when I'm in a smaller group. Large corporate worship, for me, has more of a "meeting" feel to it. I often find myself wondering what in the world I'm doing there and often thinking that I would "feel a lot closer to God right now if I would walk out of this worship service and go find a homeless guy who needed a sandwich and a friend." I rarely experience God in a large corporate setting, but almost always experience him when I'm involved in social justice, or gathered with a few friends and a guitar, or chatting over a passage with a friend in a coffee shop. It's called "liquid church". I phrase I heard a couple of years ago and have been clinging to as my hope for the future of the church.
As it is, I show up on Sundays simply because I know others will question my faith if I don't. I sit there, politely waiting for the meeting to be over.
Tim,
I am sorry that people would question your faith if you did not show up on Sundays. Those of us who know you know how passionate you are for God.
I appreciate your "liquid church" comment. I have found those liquid moments coming more and more in my life
i experience church the most when i am talking, in person, with another person one on one. real talking, not chatting. that is when i am most challenged, in a conversation, not a sermon. i need to ask questions and mull things over. being able to do that out loud helps me get out what is rolling around inside me that i can't quite put my finger on.
i miss you,
jamie
Che,
You make some very wise observations. Maybe what you are experiencing in the large worship settings is substance and not just style or size. If you connect with God in those settings, hallelujah.
I think the issue Barna may be addressing is substance, not style or size. As I said in my blog, local congregations work for many in their pursuit of God. I think for many though, there is a sense of going through the motions in places where they may not necessarily find the substantive connection they long for in their local church. Part of this is a cultural paradigm shift to a journey for a deeper life another part is a cultural shift for a more customized life style that meets the way you are wired.
Some may call this selfish. I see it as a desire to go beyond the institution of church to the heart of who the church should be.
Jamie,
Thanks for the comments. You are certainly a wise and sensitive person. I know we miss the "real discussions" with you. Your biggest fan in our house says hello.
We do miss you and Tim. We can't wait to meet Olyvia.
There may be room here for middle ground, as Che points out.
The danger I see is basing too much of what corporate worship/"church" should be on how I "feel" about it. Tim made a statement that the NT defines church as simply "where 2 or more are gathered together," but there is NT precedent set for thousands worshipping together - evidently that is a NT definition of church, too.
E. Peterson points out that one can "act his way into feeling" much easier than he can "feel his way into acting." We have all experienced corporate worship opportunities that have left us not feeling close to God, or feeling like we didn't experience him. Yet we are encouraged to "not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing," but to "...encourage one another - and all the more as you see the Day approaching." Individual and small-group worship is vital, but it's important to meet with the whole family - not just for the one but for the encouragement of the whole.
Brett,
Thanks for your point. You make some good points regarding feeling. But you missed the point of the initial post. It is not about worship. It is about being church. Worship is part of the equation not the total.
Also the scripture you quote may be taken out of historical context. This does not refer to a church service. At that point in fact most churches were at best house churches. Small groups are modeled after the NT church.
I am trying also to see the example of thousands meeting together for worship in the NT. I do see it in Acts 2, but that was not a church service but a prophetic moment in history. Where did all those saved go? Small groups in homes is the likely answer.
No one is saying to abandon the local congregation, but to say, as some would, that those who do not connect with God in the local setting are somehow less-Christian is probably not scriptural, at best it is probably extra-biblical.
This is tough for me to swallow. I think the local church is important. I don't see it as weakness in individuals. In fact these revolutionaries of which Barna speaks are more Biblical in their actions statistically than their church-going counterparts. What I see is that these revolutionaries will be more missional and compassionate.
The point Barna makes is not about worship. It is about who the church is and how people act in life not just in worship.
Also, one of the movements that will take place of the local congregation according to Barna is large worship gatherings, such as the Passion gatherings. These are often one off events. Real growth is coming through small discipleship groups.
Please understand I am not advocating for us to give up on the local church. My question simply is this; if this is the wave of the future how will we keep those who feel disenfranchised part of our fellowship, in particular the Army? I fear that often the call for those around us to ignore their feelings and to get with it does little than breed passive aggressives.
This is a hard subject and one with which I am struggling.
Cappy -
I hear what you (& George B.) are saying and I believe I agree. I don't advocate ignoring feelings - rather, I simply have come to believe (and I think many would agree) that feelings are often unreliable in matters of faith (again, roughly quoting Peterson).
I guess I feel badly for the experiences Tim and others are having regarding corporate worship because my experience has been so different so often.
what a coincidence...I was in the supermarket yesterday and bought some for you! Hahaha..Oh man I can't wait to come home!
Dave,
Thanks. That is what I am talking about not a worship style or service. See Tim's view of liquid church experience. I am not for abandoning local congregations. Those congregations may not look like they do now, be they small or large.
natr,
I appreciate the fact that you have found a place to unload. My blog is intended for us to walk together down the path of faith.
You may have a point about the model we have adopted coming from puritanism. I do think you generalize a bit when you say that this is a style that permeates those who are "just going through the motions."
I believe that many good people, who mean well, love God with all their hearts and long to see people saved are working hard at the sharing of the gospel. They may have been trained that way and feel comfortable in this style of worship.
I do think you are right. We are emerging as a church. I think often that we are not tasty to the world because we have become a comfortable club.
i like the idea of revolutionaries.
it seems like a movement that i'd like to join. it just seems to all the more cement the idea that the brick walls doesn't make the church.
as salvationists, shouldn't we be all about do whatever works? and in keeping that in mind, shouldn't we all the more continue to rework and remold our outreaches? in that way, we can expand our territory. change happens, and the army should not be excluded from that. i believe we should continue to adapt or evolve in order to actually reach people.
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