The heart of Worship?
Today, I had the wonderful opportunity to represent The Salvation Army at a church other than an Army corps. I was asked to give a presentation in three different worship gatherings. One was a "contemporary" service where about 200 or so people gathered and sang some of the praise songs we have come to love in the church. A good word was preached and an opportunity was given to meet Jesus.
The second gathering was the "traditional" service. About 100 people were there. It was held at the traditional 11am hour. The people were sincere and very warm in their greeting to me. The singing of hymns of the church was featured and a good word was spoken. There was not the same feeling of transcendence as in the first gathering. Still, I am convinced that the people there were sincere in their desire to know Christ.
The first group was dotted with 30 and 40 somethings with some college aged worshipers. There were some older people there. The second group was decidedly older. About 30 of the worshipers there were part of the choir. In both gatherings the pastor prayed for me and the Army.
The third gathering was the "alternative" service called The Crossing. The music was decidedly more rock in style. The lighting was darker. The mood was much more casual. At the same time, it was incredibly reverent. I had on my tunic for my participation and I lost it. I even loosened the tie a bit. At first blush, I thought the congregation was younger. Yet, as I looked it was the most diverse group age and culture wise. While the two other gatherings were more formal and people were friendly, these people were engaged.
I also looked around and saw people who were advisory board members of the corps. They are regular attenders of this gathering. The shocking thing was that these people are very conservative in their careers and in their manner outside of worship gatherings. In this gathering, they let loose.
After my presentation, a group of about 50 of the 250 gathered there, surrounded me, laid hands on me and prayed for me. There was a freedom here. All three groups were seeking God. This group seemed to be seeking God with abandon. A good word was spoken here. The response was deep to the word.
Rarely have I experienced this type of worship in Army corps. In gatherings such as Roots and On The Edge, people have tried to model this type of worship. People respond strongly. I think, however, that many see this form of worship as being "for the kids." The octogenarians attending The Crossing this morning would probably disagree with that sentiment.
It is interesting for me that a movement that started the whole "alternative" worship experience in 1865, has strayed so far from its roots. We had a heart for worship. We reached out to God with abandon. We were people who let loose in worship, because this is what met people where they were. Does anyone get the impression that we now become way more formal in worship than we once were? Are we in fact, more conservative in our seeking after God in our gathering than we would be in our daily lives? We have very few characters as we did in the days of our founding. Instead, conformity and formality is valued these days. Standard of meetings anyone?
I sat in a meeting with friends this week and they called each other by their ranks. We have known each other for YEARS. My fear is that we have replaced the heart of worship which was the hallmark of our early days, with the heart of formality. While the world is looking for authentic, we seem as a movement to be more concerned with process and function, while mouthing words about holiness and pentecostal fire falling on us. At least that is what we model in our big gatherings.
This is not a blog about music styles. It is not a blog about uniform. Although, I still think we have placed too much value on the outward appearance and not on the heart of worship. In fact, recently, I was at a corps council meeting where I heard "This was not Army, they did not even where uniforms on Sunday." Aargh!
Do you find like me that very few people in our movement have a sense of seeking God with abandon? Do we value form over fullness of worship? Why don't we have gatherings like the Crossing at many of our corps? Am I just making too much of this? Or have we missed the heart of worship?
What do you think?
The second gathering was the "traditional" service. About 100 people were there. It was held at the traditional 11am hour. The people were sincere and very warm in their greeting to me. The singing of hymns of the church was featured and a good word was spoken. There was not the same feeling of transcendence as in the first gathering. Still, I am convinced that the people there were sincere in their desire to know Christ.
The first group was dotted with 30 and 40 somethings with some college aged worshipers. There were some older people there. The second group was decidedly older. About 30 of the worshipers there were part of the choir. In both gatherings the pastor prayed for me and the Army.
The third gathering was the "alternative" service called The Crossing. The music was decidedly more rock in style. The lighting was darker. The mood was much more casual. At the same time, it was incredibly reverent. I had on my tunic for my participation and I lost it. I even loosened the tie a bit. At first blush, I thought the congregation was younger. Yet, as I looked it was the most diverse group age and culture wise. While the two other gatherings were more formal and people were friendly, these people were engaged.
I also looked around and saw people who were advisory board members of the corps. They are regular attenders of this gathering. The shocking thing was that these people are very conservative in their careers and in their manner outside of worship gatherings. In this gathering, they let loose.
After my presentation, a group of about 50 of the 250 gathered there, surrounded me, laid hands on me and prayed for me. There was a freedom here. All three groups were seeking God. This group seemed to be seeking God with abandon. A good word was spoken here. The response was deep to the word.
Rarely have I experienced this type of worship in Army corps. In gatherings such as Roots and On The Edge, people have tried to model this type of worship. People respond strongly. I think, however, that many see this form of worship as being "for the kids." The octogenarians attending The Crossing this morning would probably disagree with that sentiment.
It is interesting for me that a movement that started the whole "alternative" worship experience in 1865, has strayed so far from its roots. We had a heart for worship. We reached out to God with abandon. We were people who let loose in worship, because this is what met people where they were. Does anyone get the impression that we now become way more formal in worship than we once were? Are we in fact, more conservative in our seeking after God in our gathering than we would be in our daily lives? We have very few characters as we did in the days of our founding. Instead, conformity and formality is valued these days. Standard of meetings anyone?
I sat in a meeting with friends this week and they called each other by their ranks. We have known each other for YEARS. My fear is that we have replaced the heart of worship which was the hallmark of our early days, with the heart of formality. While the world is looking for authentic, we seem as a movement to be more concerned with process and function, while mouthing words about holiness and pentecostal fire falling on us. At least that is what we model in our big gatherings.
This is not a blog about music styles. It is not a blog about uniform. Although, I still think we have placed too much value on the outward appearance and not on the heart of worship. In fact, recently, I was at a corps council meeting where I heard "This was not Army, they did not even where uniforms on Sunday." Aargh!
Do you find like me that very few people in our movement have a sense of seeking God with abandon? Do we value form over fullness of worship? Why don't we have gatherings like the Crossing at many of our corps? Am I just making too much of this? Or have we missed the heart of worship?
What do you think?
posted by Larry at 6:33 PM
24 Comments:
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tim,
I wonder if God really is pleased to have fort holders as you suggest. My grandma once chided me early in my Christian life this way, "If you are moving ahead, you are almost dead." This might be simplistic in its view, but it surely seems to speak to the old forts thought.
Not that I want to throw it all away, but I think there is too much of a view as those who enjoy new ways of alternative worship as the lunatic fringe and somehow not as salvationist in our spirits as others. This worship is "for the kids." It is written off as over emotional. I think that emotions are a bonus in our relationship with God. We need faith, prayer and the word. The Spirit gives us our emotions as a gift. We don't need them to know God, but we are blessed by them when we are so taken into His presence. I think though, they become much deeper when we have those times when we have a time when we absolutely do not feel anything. When we have to rely on faith, prayer and the word it strengthens our relationship on rock solid foundation, because emotion can often trick us and can be turned against us by the Evil one.
I think I have strayed a bit. All this to say, I think we need to reach much further than we have in this realm or worship while getting back to our roots.
L
this is going to be long winded:
Something I remember from a few years ago was being at a divisional function and seeing the music director teaching Salvationists how to sing praise and worship songs. Telling them when to put up their hands and how to move them back and forth etc. At the time I couldn't believe what I was witnessing.
(did you know that when you spell check Salvationists, one of the suggested spellings, second under Salvation, is Isolationists?)
I know that I've been fairly pro traditional in my comments here in the past, since deleted, sorry, still getting used to leaving comments. Thoughts evolve, and there isn't a way to edit, I'll try to leave this one.
When I first returned to the Army as a broken man, all I needed was to get back into the house of God and experience his presence. At that time in God's journey for me, just being in a church environment where Jesus could heal me was enough. But the past two services where I attend has been a bit unsettling to me. The first one, I could really sense the Holy spirit moving in the young people sitting in front of me, in fact, the whole meeting seemed to be pointed to them and I was certain they would go forward. But the "meeting" was cut quickly. I'm not sure, but I am almost just as certain I could see the spirit quickly lift and withdraw when we were asked to stop praying and turn to the last song. Then, this past Sunday, the "meeting" was done very efficiently by officer replacements because the CO was away. But it was so learned and by the book that you had to flip pages or find your music like you were in a race just to keep up, it moved so suddenly. This time I found myself saying almost sacrilegiously, Hooolllly Spirit, come out come out where ever you are.
It's hard to write these things Larry. I don't want to hurt anyone. But being brought back from the dead has changed me, and my heart is breaking all the time for the lost of the world. I mean really breaking, not metaphor. It's what God slipped into me when he put me back together and there is nothing I can do about it. I don't know if the Army needs to become broken to get fixed. I only know that is what I needed. But that may be an answer.
Uniforms are fine, if in fact, you wear them because the Holy spirit has brought you to some point of understanding that when you put on the uniform, your civilian personality disappears and you become a witness to some great renewal of your life that allows you to wear it. I'm not sure how to say that. but thought I'd give it a try.
Traditional worship is profound if traditional type servants are being renewed by the Holy Spirit to save others through it. We have to pray to the Holy Spirit to change things, to become present and do His work, then we have to submit to Him and the answer to that prayer or get out of the way. Traditional worship, Praise Worship, Alternative, they are all good and vital because there are all types of people, but whatever we decide, we need to plug into God's will or, again, get out of the way and let those that are sensitive to the spirit become filled by Him and allow Him to work through them.
I'm thinking just now these worship forms are not for us or our enjoyment, they are for the advancement of the Kingdom. I love that these questions are being asked. And I am convinced that Jesus is spurring us on to find the answer.
Something one of your readers whose calls herself 'by the bay' said in a previous comment on another post is still ringing in my ears. That 'soldiers need to grow up.' That the Army is not our parent.' I'm not sure exactly the context in which she made that statement, but in my understanding it's true. We are followers of Christ first. And if spirit filled soldiers, non soldiers, officers, whoever, need to stand up in the middle of meetings when moved and speak the truth, the change, or break out in song or praise, then so be it! Let's do it! You certainly don't teach someone how to praise God. He gets in us and We Praise Him!
Maybe we need to save each other before we can save anyone else. Someday we'll ~ I'll have to get out from behind our/my blog(s) and stand up in the congregation for the future of the Army, and for the sake of the Kingdom and speak the truth into our blessed church. And lets do it sooner than later before the Lord clears his throat... in a Revelation way of speaking of course.
Jeff,
I agree with you that all types of worship is valid, as long as it is more than form and brings us into the presence of God. I think the issue is that we hold onto our own preference because that is what it is not necessarily what God wants.
I agree. Which is what I meant as long as it renews those that require that form. Because doing something for the sake of form is no more valid than spending Sunday morning at Starbucks with the Sunday paper. In fact more harmful, because at least everyone at Starbucks is there of one accord. The Holy Spirit grieves, you feel that too, don't you, when He comes and isn't allowed to move because of things are being done procedurally.
So where do we go from here? We can't just continue talking about it. There must be some course of action by now.
Let me just start by saying I love your blog. I know that I barely comment on it but that's because I enjoy reading what everyone else is thinking. I learn something new every day!
I do just want to say something about the corps I go to. (you happen to know it well) :) The corps I go to is fairly traditional. There are times when members of the NYSB are away and we have some more contemporary style music but for the most part it's a Brass band, organ, piano and songster Sunday, EVERY sunday. Every Sunday without fail we have a program of every little thing that is going to happen during the meeting. Please know that I'm not trying to down talk my corps. Anyway, we recently got new assistant corps officers who are a little younger and grew up in a different Sunday morning setting. Their Sunday morning meetings had no programs at all :) So they decieded to put at the bottom of every program "Program may change due to the guidance of the Holy Spirit." BOY DID THAT TURN HEADS! Everyone immediately noticed it and where questioning it left and right. OH no, the program changing?? This really made me wonder. Are we actually leaving time for the Holy Spirit???? Or are we too quick to get the "program" over with and go home to take a Sunday afternoon nap.
Me personally, I don't have a problem with what kind of music is played or in what style, my problem is are we just going through the "program" to get it done with and not letting the spirit guide us??
I don't really know where all this is going but I thought I would share it.
Great post!
You’ve raised some great questions . . . I think that we have an army that no longer needs God . . . I think we tend to rely more on our mail appeal, capital campaigns and program strategies than we do on God. I think we too often seek the “praise of men” rather than the glory of God.
In my opinion, everything we do is about us - all about the Army. Have you ever seen a church sing about itself, about its flag, about its people like we do? We even sing about what we do and what we wear. . . and in the process dare to say “lift Jesus higher.”
I can no longer attend territorial events . . . it makes my stomach turn. And so I struggle . . .
Our carnality and pride has left with a form of godliness but no power.
That’s just my opinion. Sorry to be so negative . . . reality leads to discussions such as this.
Jeff and Brent,
You have both been insightful.
Jeff,
Thanks for your Spirit. Sunday at Starbucks....Wouldn't that be an interesting place for Christians to meet in worship and study? We probably would argue on the drink of the day....
Brent,
Knowing most of our leadership at our territory intimately, I would not agree with us not needing God. Affirmation of men is not a bad thing as long as we don't long for it. I do agree that often we do a great deal of Army worship, instead of God worship. The balance between denominational allegiance, because of the need for accountability and denominational worship or pride can be a tough one to keep. My struggle at some of our large events is that often we appear to think that the event is the important thing and not freedom in the Spirit. I have been praying that God would completely have free reign at our upcoming Congress. I have been praying for a manifestation of the Spirit that would shock us. I have been praying that God would move in spite of our tech sheets.
That does not mean that we do not need to plan and be prayerful in that planning. It does mean that we need the disclaimer which Allison spoke of in her comment. I am praying that the Holy Spirit will change the program. It would be a great sign for our Army.
Very thought-provoking post. But will all it accomplishes be thinking. We need to begin to move toward action. I was struck by your comments regarding friends in the meeting referring to each other by rank. I see this more often than not in my neck of the woods.
Did you happen to see the latest On Fire magazine from Australia? Stuart McGifford, the DYS in Nothern Victoria poses the following questions and thoughts:
"Are the actions of today's Salvationists enough to create a new legacy? Is the need to change the world ever going to be more important than the need to maintain what we already have?"
"It seems that our illustrious history is holding the future of our movement hostage. I know I am guilty of living in stories of our past, rather than drawing inspiration from them and getting on with God's kingdom today."
Thought-provoking or action inciting?
Larry,
I also pray that for the congress and prayed the same thing and believed it for the past 2006 OOB Camp Meetings. I believed the Lord met us powerfully in the 24/7 prayer room. And one night's meeting in particular, with Calvin Miller and Ken Medema was the most profound SA meeting I had ever attended. Ken invited people in the congregation to come up to strategically placed microphones in the Pavilion and share their stories. And then he would on the spot compose and sing a song using their story. Well, the stories were all stories of great brokenness, and the ministry of Ken tied those stories together in a most powerful manner through the gift of his song. It takes a great spirit filled leader to pull that off. I've seen other expressions of hurt bomb out if the leader was not spirit filled. But what allowed the Holy spirit to really work in that setting was the honesty and trust each person shared with Ken.
When away from the Army, I attended a New Life Church. Mostly on Saturday night. Because then, we could be sure there would be no time constraints. There we would stand for the first hour and a half praising and worshiping. Then we would have an hour at least of bible teaching by the pastor. 3+ hour services were not uncommon. And we always left full of energy and joy of the Spirit. Regarding the praise and worship, it wasn't anything you had to feel comfortable with. At first, I was totally broken when I attended and didn't know how to or feel like praising. But the Holy Spirit was there and would always overtake me and lift my hands. Does anyone here know what it is like to find your hands in the air without manually placing them there? This is what I mean by just allowing this way of worship into the Army. It may feel completely foreign at first, even unwanted, but in time, if allowed, it will overtake us. But it must be given time. Not a structured block of time between the first song and the scripture reading. We need to come just to praise God. Why is that so hard? To come to Church just to praise the Lord!
I pray weekly that the Holy Spirit will fall on the corps council when they meet. On old reitred Majors and Colonels. This is how the Army will change. By the Holy Spirit overtaking each one of us. Let's pray for that, can we?
And Allison, keep commenting. It's the young that can and will be most effective in raising up the new standard of love and spirit of truth in the Army today and tomorrow. And your comments were a blessing.
Thanks Jeff :)
Most likely none of you have ever been to a worship time during TAM Conservatory. I can't even describe the freeness in worship we have. There are no tech sheets or programs. It is just a time of true worship to God. Some stand, some dance, some even ran around during one song, it is truely amazing. I remember one night two years ago, TAM just finished their amazing performance of a play called Marching Along. It was about George Scott Railton, Joe the Turk, Cecil Brown and Betty Baker. We saw a glimpse of ordinary people used by God in extraordinary ways. Anyway after that was over Mrs.Munn went to the stage to give us a quick devotional thought and it turned into one huge time of prayer. Some people were in groups, some alone, some just shouting out prayers. We didn't care about the time or hanging out before curfew, it was truely a spirit filled moment. The sad thing about this is that all these young people that attend TAM spend their whole year looking forward to that worship experience. Why is it that we often depend on the big events to be filled with the spirit?? Does that hint that there is something wrong with our own worship times at our own churches?????
not a hint. It's truth. But I believe the future looks bright. Because of some of the current spirit filled leaders in TAM and in other places.
It wont be easy, nothing great and worthwhile is, but with Christ through the Holy Spirit all things are possible. Keep dancing, keep running and praising. While the heavy hitters in these important blogs keep banging on the doors of the status quo, Joshua's band of Dancers and praisers and mimers and musicians and artists and singers can dance and sing and create and trumpet around the walls. They will come down. Thus says the Lord!
Allison,
Great word. Why do we need to wait until big events?
Jeff,
Not sure that any of us in this blog are "heavy hitters." In fact not much heavy about me. If I remember right, we both score a 10 on the tiny scale ;)
i really couldn't find the right expression and heavy hitter just came to mind. But remember this:
Let the weak say, ‘I am strong.’”Joel 3:10b and
Deuteronomy 31:6
Be strong and of good courage, do not fear nor be afraid of them; for the LORD your God, He is the One who goes with you. He will not leave you nor forsake you.” and
2 Samuel 10:12
Be of good courage, and let us be strong for our people and for the cities of our God. And may the LORD do what is good in His sight.”
and in 2 Corinthians 12:9.
And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
And rumour has it that David was the ultimate 10 on the tiny scale.
Your post today is right up our alley, our address, our vision, our discouragement, our future choices about worship. We have very little encouragement or participation from anyone, community and leadership alike, regarding the state of our corps. After hard work, day after week after month after year of reaching out and encouraging others to join us praising God in our worship time, its obvious that someone else's reprehensive touch still has a tight and elusive hold upon our community. They had worked very hard to eliminate this collective realm of worship. Our attempts to help God pour new wine is not fitting within any decrepit wineskin. With two people in church on Easter Sunday, and 5-7 on any regular Sunday, I am tired of facing the fact that I feel like we are "playing church" when there are souls dying in sin, but they want nothing to do with me or church for that matter.
I can't help how it makes me react, it sounds like criticism when you point a finger about "straying from our roots" when the truth of the root is gathering together in the name of Jesus and praising God's name exalted and high and embracing the joy and fruit of the Holy Spirit.
Presentations, no, you were involved in the gift of worship, a special, tender and moving gift.
Worship can only be embraced when those who are there willingly listen to the voice of God's presence within their heart - whether its 5000 or 5.
I cannot compare or contrast others worship, I know that I have a grasp and responsibility for worship right now and they only make me feel like we are failing.
We shouldn't wait till big events. But that is sadly how some people view it. They go to an event get filled with the spirit andthen leave that mountain top and quickly fall into a ditch and they depend on that one big weekend to change their lives again. We have to learn how to retain it all. Which is hard at times. I'm not saying that big events are bad, I absolutely love them! I'm just saying it's sad when people base their relationship with God on that one weekend.
allison, you are so right. That's the the way it was with me when I was a kid many moons ago. Mountaintop experiences. Then the long depressing ride home. But I think now, that had more to do with me than the Army. I've since learned from the rebuilding of my life through the Lord that if we can stay tuned to him in any situation, He becomes our mountain. When we can realize that it is Jesus that we are really seeking and needing, our spirit can become infectious where ever we are. Then if people see the love and life of Jesus coming out of us, then they wil want that spirit for themselves. This is what we all need. A revival in our individual souls, then we can make the change that is needed in our individual corps and churches. Or God through us that is. I know it must seem hopeless and exhausting to many who have hung on for so long.(jsi, my prayers are with you) But trust me when I say, that you can dance in the ditch. And the more we do, the more things will shift.
jsi,
If no one is really paying any attention anyway, ditch the service. What's the point if you feel like your small crowd isn't participating fully and you're frustrated? Take the Word to the street. Maybe that's preaching, open air meeting. Probably it's not. Probably it's serving the lost in your community in some physical way or just sitting with them and forming relationships. They're out there on Sunday morning and you're inside your chapel, but for what? Statistics?
I love Urbana's (Intervarsity's mission conference) logo. It's a cricle that has 2 words MISSION-->WORSHIP-->MISSION-->WORSHIP. Out of mission and service, you may find a new kind of worship that you, your community and even leadership can embrace. If you had said you have 5 dedicated worshipers, I'd answer differently, but then again, if you had 5 dedicated worshipers every Sunday, it wouldn't be that way for long. The 5 would become 10 would become 20.
Be free. It doesn't sound like anyone is right now.
I must say, I really enjoy reading this blog.
I guess the stance that I've come to take over the past couple of years is this: if Holy Spirit is prodding me towards more freedom in worship, then I am going to follow suit. In the end its turned out to be so beneficial. I can't imagine how un-obediant I may feel if I didn't follow Holy Spirit's leading.
To follow suit on what Allison commented on - We also have that statement at the bottom of our program each Sunday. Also, we've been working here, with the Lord's guidance, to have the teens of my Corps see that they don't have to wait for big events(youth councils and the such)to find God and be free in worship. God is here and they are coming to that realization through Him. If you're feeling it, girl, GO for it!
We have also, within this month, begun what I guessed could be called the "alternative" service at our Corps; The Foundry www.thefoundrybangor.blogspot.com
God is Here and Holy Spirit has been showing up in a huge way!
Jeff, I like what you said about wearing the uniform. However, it made me think, shouldn't we be witnesses to great renewal in our lives whether or not we are wearing our uniforms? I wear mine proudly. God has brought me to the point where wearing it doesn't stop me in worship(usually)...but I am living that same life in and out of my uniform.
Just some thoughts...
Denise-
yes I agree about what you said about the uniform. so far I'm only half in. uniform pants and blue sweater. when I left the Army 6 years ago, I threw mine in the Dumpster! Long story,
anyway, my comments about the uniform earlier reflect that I really had to rise in my spirit to put it on, because it makes me so self conscious when I'm walking from my apt, to the corps. not far, trust me. But when I really let go and let the Holy Spirit have at me, it's no big deal to put it on. I guess if representing the SA its a good thing, if I didn't play in the band would I wear it? Probably not. To me, if it's required, I wear it and get over it. And I do mean get over it. When I feel like ministering or talking to some kids off the street when they come into church, Id much rather do it in Jeans. Cause that's who I am. Not sure about opening the uniform can of worms, but maybe some others would care to chime in.
I hear there is a move to bring back the high collar tunic. Now I dig the high collar, always have. I'd actually wear that without any reason. the high collar is more reflective of who I really am. Who God created me to be. Not sure why it makes a difference, I guess because maybe I'm just not a shirt and tie guy. Wouldn't it be funny if it was about shirts and ties and not uniforms.
What a goof!
And while I'm at it, what's with those Barber of Seville shirts we got going on?!
Jeff,
I’ll chime in . . .
The uniform has been a barrier for me since I met the army. I almost didn’t become an officer because of it and if I ever leave officership it’ll be one of the reasons. I can accept the uniform as a means of community relations, however, requiring people, even officers, to worship corporately in it is (and always will be) a problem for me.
Hey Larry,
I know i was slow on this one but... To answer your question I think there are plenty within our movement who have a sense of seeking God with complete abandon.
Maybe I get that sense because I am blessed to have the Local ARC join me every Sunday. It has been my experience that when someone or an entire community has and understanding of their desperation, their complete an utter helpness without God then they seek him with all of their might.
and Our worship forms become irrelevent and our worshipping heart takes over.
I think as a movement we need remember that we a not just called to the marginalized but we need to completely identify with the marginalized and rember that we are just as helpless without God and find that desperation for him.
nice!
"It has been my experience that when someone or an entire community has an understanding of their desperation, their complete an utter helpness without God then they seek him with all of their might."
well said Steve. Exactly right and the path to conversion.
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