What is a young adult?
In the past 20 years or so we have been quick in the church to develop a new group of people, called young adults. In the church, particularly in the the Army, we have decided this group is between the ages of 18-35. Huh?
At 35 I was the corps officer of one of the largest corps in the territory and had a kid in middle school. Young?
The needs of this age group are so diverse that how one can think that we can lump them all together is mind-boggling. Even those who are 25 have far different needs than their 18 - 20 counterparts. What are we thinking?
Maybe we can define college-aged adults as those roughly 18-23. Even then, we can have some discussion on the wide spectrum of needs of those students.
The fact is that at 18 people are ADULTS. They can vote, buy cigarettes in most states, be tried as adults in court for crimes they commit and get shot at in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why don't we acknowledge that? Why do we think that those under 30 have a way different set of expectations? Isn't that a cop out?
Someone said to me last week that a young adult is someone in transition. I am in my 40's and have found this to be one of the most dramatic years of transition in my life. Weak argument that one.
Some would also suggest that developmental stages and a view of church as the definition of those who would be young adults. I will concede that the developmental needs of a person at 18, 20, 25 or 30 are much different than mine. Yet, the fact is that the view of the church needing reform holds traction cross-generationally.
Let me say I have a great deal of respect for emerging generations. I do believe this is where revolution in the church and revival will take place. I also believe we do a disservice to those younger than me by letting them think they are second-class, by giving them a pass, by telling them they don't really know anything because of their youth.
I think that what we have tried to do is put a package deal together. I think we are looking for a program to fix a fundamental need for the church to be overhauled. I am concerned that we are trying to address a fundamental issue, by big events and thinking that a new "contemporary service" with a rocking worship band with a projector will meet the needs of the 20 something and those who are a bit older and feel a kinship with them. Many in their 40's, 50's and 60's feel the same passion for a new kind of church
So where am I going with this? I believe the answer is not to create a generational package. For what it is worth, here is what I think.
First, the church does not need a program, but an overhaul. While not doing away with structure, there does need to be a flattening of authority. We can no longer fall prey to the thought that age and position are the sole qualifiers for leadership. Leadership keys must be released to younger generations and most go across all generational lines, even college aged individuals. This may act as a catalyst for deeper participation in the church.
Secondly, the church needs to develop relationships of intimacy and informality among generations in the church. Respect is earned when it is shared. Maybe we need in the Army to rethink the military metaphor somewhat. It may be that we need to not think of rank as reward, just a designation of training and a different type of vocational calling. This will allow for a better approachability between generations.
Third, membership may need to be rethought. Younger generations will commit to mission and to ministry, but maybe not to our style. They may not attend the worship services at our corps, but will worship. They will attend Bible fellowships, prayer and alternative worship gatherings. They will be challenged to accept our mission and will throw themselves into it.
I am sure there are more issues to be addressed. I could probably think of a million more.
So here are the questions. Is the term young adult used as an excuse by many for not allowing emerging generations take their rightful place in the church? Isn't the term a cop out for many? Do we not require college aged individuals to really fully participate because somehow we don't believe they can? Do we expect them to fit our mold of what we think they ought to do, instead of what God wants them to do? Do we need to flatten authority so that emerging generations can more fully participate in the church? How do we develop relationships of intimacy and informality in our movement?
What do you think?
At 35 I was the corps officer of one of the largest corps in the territory and had a kid in middle school. Young?
The needs of this age group are so diverse that how one can think that we can lump them all together is mind-boggling. Even those who are 25 have far different needs than their 18 - 20 counterparts. What are we thinking?
Maybe we can define college-aged adults as those roughly 18-23. Even then, we can have some discussion on the wide spectrum of needs of those students.
The fact is that at 18 people are ADULTS. They can vote, buy cigarettes in most states, be tried as adults in court for crimes they commit and get shot at in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why don't we acknowledge that? Why do we think that those under 30 have a way different set of expectations? Isn't that a cop out?
Someone said to me last week that a young adult is someone in transition. I am in my 40's and have found this to be one of the most dramatic years of transition in my life. Weak argument that one.
Some would also suggest that developmental stages and a view of church as the definition of those who would be young adults. I will concede that the developmental needs of a person at 18, 20, 25 or 30 are much different than mine. Yet, the fact is that the view of the church needing reform holds traction cross-generationally.
Let me say I have a great deal of respect for emerging generations. I do believe this is where revolution in the church and revival will take place. I also believe we do a disservice to those younger than me by letting them think they are second-class, by giving them a pass, by telling them they don't really know anything because of their youth.
I think that what we have tried to do is put a package deal together. I think we are looking for a program to fix a fundamental need for the church to be overhauled. I am concerned that we are trying to address a fundamental issue, by big events and thinking that a new "contemporary service" with a rocking worship band with a projector will meet the needs of the 20 something and those who are a bit older and feel a kinship with them. Many in their 40's, 50's and 60's feel the same passion for a new kind of church
So where am I going with this? I believe the answer is not to create a generational package. For what it is worth, here is what I think.
First, the church does not need a program, but an overhaul. While not doing away with structure, there does need to be a flattening of authority. We can no longer fall prey to the thought that age and position are the sole qualifiers for leadership. Leadership keys must be released to younger generations and most go across all generational lines, even college aged individuals. This may act as a catalyst for deeper participation in the church.
Secondly, the church needs to develop relationships of intimacy and informality among generations in the church. Respect is earned when it is shared. Maybe we need in the Army to rethink the military metaphor somewhat. It may be that we need to not think of rank as reward, just a designation of training and a different type of vocational calling. This will allow for a better approachability between generations.
Third, membership may need to be rethought. Younger generations will commit to mission and to ministry, but maybe not to our style. They may not attend the worship services at our corps, but will worship. They will attend Bible fellowships, prayer and alternative worship gatherings. They will be challenged to accept our mission and will throw themselves into it.
I am sure there are more issues to be addressed. I could probably think of a million more.
So here are the questions. Is the term young adult used as an excuse by many for not allowing emerging generations take their rightful place in the church? Isn't the term a cop out for many? Do we not require college aged individuals to really fully participate because somehow we don't believe they can? Do we expect them to fit our mold of what we think they ought to do, instead of what God wants them to do? Do we need to flatten authority so that emerging generations can more fully participate in the church? How do we develop relationships of intimacy and informality in our movement?
What do you think?
posted by Larry at 1:07 PM
24 Comments:
Some good thoughts. Many of these came up in the recent gathering to discuss the whole approach The Army takes to young adults. As you have mentioned, one of the best things, in my opinion, to come out of that gathering was the recognition that there are many sub-groups or stages within the broader category of Young Adult, each with their own needs and contributions.
It seems to me that the parameters we use to define a group are driven by what we are hoping to accomplish at the time. If we are trying to include more people in a particular event or experience, we broaden the range and vice versa.
The Army was a little slow on the uptake to try to understand and reach out to this relatively newly defined group, so it probably shouldn't be that surprising that it is taking us awhile to grasp all the nuances of it.
Susan,
I was in leadership at 27. I am not for abandoning younger the structure, but flattening it. It is not about grace. It is about not letting this younger group take its rightful place at the table.
All good questions but I have to say, as far behind culture as the church is, the Army seems to be even further behind the rest of the church. 18 and 30 year olds are different? Wow! You don’t say!
To me the need for this discussion comes down to one thing, we’re not paying attention and we hate to admit that we might need to.
Here in the UK, they’ve already been through what the Army in the U.S. is going through now. They went through it, lost nearly all of their members, and now find themselves digging their (our) church out from the bottom. The Army in the U.S. is headed in the same direction. Their stats very clearly say so. Yet they’re determined to stick to their guns, roll the dice, and prove everybody who’s already been through it, wrong. It’s frustrating and, frankly, sickening to see.
Yes, 30 year olds and 18 year olds are very different. Duh. 18 year olds and twelve year olds are also very different. The rest of the church has also figured that one out. But I’m guessing that’s a conversation we’ll be having in ANOTHER fifteen years.
Tim,
We had a young adult forum. I will see what comes out of it.
I am hoping we don't go down the path of another program. I think we need a newer approach to church.
to me, it seems that so often the young adults who are participating in active ministry or leadership are the ones filling out their preliminaries. it seems that officership is a given for those called to ministry, that it's an obvious next step. but i believe there is a strong dividing line between being called into leadership and/or officership. but the two can and do coexist. i personally know alot of "young adults" who have felt called to officership. and yet, i know even more who are not involved in any form of ministry or leadership within the corps. as a "young adult," i know that we need to have some form of ownership in things. it creates a desire in us to further participate. as to how we can "flatten the structure," i've really not much of an idea.
natr,
You did not rant. I think you have expressed some frustration that others have. I have the same frustrations.
I do believe there must be an invitation to all of the younger adults to lead. They need to have opportunity to be part of a ministry that will fit their gifts and their style of life.
I hope your friends and you can find a good outlet for ministry.
Susan,
Flattening means to design a system where power is shared. The decisions of our organization are made by a group of mostly 50-60 year old white men.
These men are godly and I respect them. We would be highly advantaged in my opinion to remove some of the layers of administration and involve these younger adults in some of the real decision making and tailor service opportunities for this generation to explore ministry without the necessity of officership being the next step.
Mmm...
so much too say, kinda no point in saying it though. We do have a significant group of men and women who make the decisions for our territory.
Some what disillusioned by the whole blog thing right now when it comes to debating situations in the army - is it really gonna help?
Is it ever gonna be heard by those who have the power to change anything? I'm tired of lip service. I know what I want for the Army - however, I know I have selfish motives the majority of the time, and so I'll keep them to myself.
I do love this age group, I am in this age group, but nothing major appears to be happening here, so I'll wait for a while. Bring on the come back, I know you have one!
mhairi,
So what good is keeping things in?
Maybe we should be in contact outside the channels of blogging.
Interested in your thoughts. I will talk with you.
Ok, my opinion is this;
this army is very much close to my heart, and I am about done with the talking about things when nothing happens as a result. What good is a young adult to the Salvation Army if we are just gonna look upon them as a marketing group? I do not necessarily look upon the title as a young adult the be all and end all of it. There are sub-titles within Adult ministry, children's ministry - why on earth would Young Adults be any different? Young adult ministry is not about numbers, but people, names, faces, etc. It should NEVER be seen as a territorial programme. I know this is a stupid illustration and one that I have overused, but come on; how many unhealthy babies have you seen grow? How many malnourished children do you see make it into maturity? Yeah, me neither – my peers are starving! Starving for responsibility, starving for someone to value them and their potential ministry, starving for someone just to be interested enough in them to take them out to Starbucks for a coffee. Come on now…
I have friends who are just married - they need feeding; I have friends who are just saved - they need teaching; I have friends that are on the periphery of the army – they need reaching. What bothers me is that this is no news to anyone, I am not a herald bringing in some new revelation, we know this, and until we feel sick to our stomachs with guilt we will know this; will we wait ‘til then until we do something? Lord, I hope not.
We as Salvationist believe in the Priesthood of the believers, yes? So why in the name of goodness is it only Officers – older Officers that are given the “blessing” to go ahead and do things? We must break this; I believe it is hypocrisy; in the name of Jesus I pray that we break this mentality – it is a ball and chain around our ankle that we must remove, and you know what the longer we leave it on, the harder it will be to remove; let’s get on with it boys, cause it’s gonna hurt like heck! Christ is freedom; we have freedom in Christ, why do we give it up to stupid bureaucratic policies? I know that when I get into Heaven I am not gonna be asked if I followed TSA minutes to the letter – so seriously, unless it is useful to stewardship, chuck them all! We talk about being out of our comfort zones – let’s start putting our money where our mouth is!
I don’t say this in anyway to humiliate my army – I love it, but like anyone you love, sometimes you have to tell those things that annoy the life out of you; when it all gets too much. That’s another cycle I am tired of, I don’t want to have to be at the, “It’s all too much stage,” I want to be at the, “I love the future of the Army so much, that I choose to love those who are going to carry it forward to reach the emerging generations.”
Habakkuk 3:2 says,
“Oh Lord, we have heard of your fame,
I stand in awe of your great deeds,
In our time make them know;
In wrath remember mercy.”
That is a word that has been spoken over my generation time after time and I just want to say, BRING IT! We have had out glory days where it was all programme and that was enough; we need something different now, something that will tell of His great deeds that will proclaim His fame; unfortunately, our baby is still in infancy, dying of malnutrition, will it ever speak?
But for those who have managed to have enough spiritual food, are we gonna wait until their passion for the word and the preaching of it grows stagnant? Once again, I can list those with varying gifts that we could be using in the church if only we would stop seeing their age as a hindrance to the gospel. God knows each and everyone of my generation, He knows them by name even! He would not have equipped a generation for nothing; He obviously has some stuff for us to be getting on with.
My generation is not worthless, we have stuff to be getting on with, please let us…
It's interesting to me to think of Young Adult as the age group of 18-35.
I was an English major in college, before joining P117, and in my Young Adult Lit classes, Young Adult was defined as between the ages of 11-21. As I was always advanced in my reading, even back in my middle school years, I thought of myself as "young adult" because I would read adult books (Dean Koontz, a few romance novels, anything that my mom reads basically).
Now, as I am studying to become a youth pastor, to hear that the range in the army is 18-35 makes me quite frustrated. For most of my teen years I couldn't wait to turn 18. I was told that, at 18, I would be an adult. Well, 18 rolled around and I was told that at 21 I would be an adult. Well, 21 has come and is almost gone. I was told around my 21st birthday that 25 is when most people consider others to be adults. Now, as I'm nearing 22, 30 is the new age to be considered an adult. When does this end? My father is almost 43, and he doesn't always act like an adult. Actually, I know certain men who are older than my father who don't always act like an adult either.
What is an adult? I think that is the big question. Is it someone in leadership? Is it someone who sets goals for their life? Is it someone who is married, and/or has children? Is it someone who can think for themselves? Is it someone who owns their own home? Well, I have been in leadership positions at church and at work since I was 19. I have goals for my life, that include marriage and children. I have one close friend who is now married (she is 21, and her husband is 20). I have several more who plan to be married in the next year or two (also aged 21). I like to think that I can think for myself, as do my friends. I have a classmate at P117 who owned his own home before selling it to come here (he's 29). I have several friends who have had children since high school, or their first year of college.
How do any of these hold up? Most of us are trying to find our place in the world. For some of us, that means ministry. For some of those, it means officership. I never realized it until I read this blog, that my own thoughts toward officership are mainly because that is what seems to be the only opportunity for ministry. Yes, I have been working as a youth pastor back home, and I am now attending a school for the same thing. But where would I get it into my head that officership is the only way to make a difference?
The answer is that, as a youth pastor back home, I have seen that, anyone who isn't greying, going bald, or becoming a grandparent, cannot have any true say in what goes on in the church. This is not true of every church. Please don't get me wrong. I used to attend a corps that was meant for the "young adults" known as Generation Next. I was a member of the corps council there, and a sunday school leader. All this when I was 18-19 years old. However, when that corps closed down, I began attending a more traditional corps, in the same building. Please do not take this as me slamming anyone in leadership there. But, what I saw was that my fellow youth department leaders and I (there were three of us, all aged between 20-22) were not given straight-forward answers, and vague brushings-off when we brought an idea to the table. We were good enough to be asked to take care of youth services, and the like, but as for coming up with ideas on how to make things work, no one ever talked to us. I don't even know if there was a corps council for the more traditional corps. All I know is that I wasn't apart of it, and neither were my fellow "young adults."
I am studying along-side the cadets at the School for Officer Training, and I view them as my equals. This means, I call them by first name, and I talk to them as I would close friends. Larry and Janet A. (who are Majors) are the same for me. They have made it much simpler to talk to them as human beings, because they don't require us to use the terms Major A. or even Major Larry. As I sign of respect, I do use the terms Major, Captain, Colonel, etc. if I am around certain other officers. But, I have some friend who are new captains who will always be known to me as Mindy, or Jay, or Campbell, etc.
I'm not sure that this is following along the same train of thought as everyone else's comments, but these are my thoughts. I have more to say, but I think I've rambled enough.
Mhairi and Mel,
Thanks for your passion. Thanks for your desire to serve. Do not get weary in doing good.
Both of you have so much to offer the Kingdom. Maybe we can forward some of your thoughts on to those who need to hear them.
This is an old post now, so this comment may get lost, but as tired as I am of tired old officers with no vision, and just as tired of young adults with no motivation or guts. You call yourself a leader? Then lead! Great leaders don’t wait for permission, leadership just permeates from them. So quit waiting for permission and get up and lead. You say your young adults group needs a ministry to them? Then start one! A peer lead ministry can be just as, if not even more powerful than one led from the top down.
Listen, I’m as unimpressed with the direction of this church as anybody, but I’m as unimpressed with it’s members as I am with its leaders. Revivals have almost always started with young people, but they have never started with young people asking permission. If you’re sick of it, then do something about it. I can promise you this, if you and your peers will start a successful ministry to young adults, there will be money in next year’s budget for it!!!
Tim,
You have just beat a drum that I have been beating for years.
The Holy Spirit will power the projects if we do something in alignment with His will.
Maybe it could be something as small as starting a prayer meeting or Bible Study for a group of searching friends.
Exactly! We're all looking for the big fix, but the big fix isn't going to happen from the top down. It's going to be a slow process that starts from the ground up. And, for the record, it is happening in some places in the world. My division, in particular, is being taken over by young radical officers and soldier/members who have decided that things WILL change. And these young officers and soldier/members came from one or two Corps in this division whose members decided that their Corps could not continue on being mediocre. And now, from these one or two Corps, leaders are rising up. You've heard of Roots? It was started by a handful (and I do mean handful) of young adults who were no longer satisfied and who decided to change things in their community. People began to see what was happening and came along side what they were doing. Now, not only is Roots a worldwide Salvationist conference, but the people who started that movement are now changing the way the UK does ministry, not only to young people, but to old people alike.
Glad Tim has taken a break from his SA/USA bashing to speak a word of wisdom that was desperately needed in this discussion. I've been working in ministry with young adults now for about 7 years. My greatest disappointment is not corps that don't welcome them or have a place for them. It's not tired old worship orders that haven't changed since Shine Jesus Shine was written. It's not in a lack of opportunities for service. There are ways in which all of those things and several others are disappointing, but the single greatest disappointment is that when the door is opened, when the opportunity is extended that young adults don't take up the gauntlet of service and leadership. We are overall a lazy and self-centered generation. People keep saying it's the generation that's going to change the world, but that's not going to happen until we move beyond our XBoxes and Grande Macchiatos to see the world around us.
As much as the older generations can be blamed for not giving young adults the opportunity (Melissa, I'm sad and sorry for your experience. I hope you can and trust you will move forward in ministry with the model of your Gen Next experience, past the bitterness over the unfortunate loss of it), the younger generations must shoulder some responsibility for flaking when the opportunities are given.
In general, young adults would rather be rockstars than real, honest to goodness servants.
Now neatr_natr, that's what I call a rant.
Drew,
No rant there. Just truth. I do think that the older generations need to provide opportunities and give invitation to participate. It would make things easier.
I think often we call people "young adults" and give them an out for three reasons:
1. We don't think they are capable to do anything.
2. When they fail, we blame it on youth.
3. We don't want the take over that Tim talks about.
I think it means an overhaul in the way we view church and leadership. It can't be a top down thing.
Despite Drew’s little slap on my blog, he did say one thing that I’ve believed for a long, long time.
“In general, young adults would rather be rockstars than real, honest to goodness servants.”
I would say that most Christians would rather be a great many things than real, honest to goodness servants, but I think Drew nailed it on the head when he said “rockstars”. I could start a whole rant about worship right now, but that’s not what this post is about. Needless to say, I’ve got volunteers falling out of trees to be in the band, but few signing up to do anything helpful.
Larry, erase that next post man. Clearly we’re not through discussing this one.
I have a feeling you’ll not get any responses to that last question. If any of us could answer that question, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. In fact, if any of us could answer that, we might be a legitimate candidate for the open general position.
Having said that, there’s nothing more motivating than seeing something done. That’s why we go to conferences at Willow Creek. That’s why we fly across the pond to check out the Roots retreat. Maybe our young adults need to see it happening. After all, up until now, it’s mostly been just a lot of talk.
I’ve heard a lot of feedback from the OTE conference this past year, and it all seems to revolve around the idea of “giving away my sandwich” (a GREAT idea btw, I plan on steeling it). How can we get our young adults to actually experience “leading” some of the things we’re talking about? We all know the problems of inviting them to experience ministry in a venue that they can’t possibly replicate. “Giving away my sandwich” is one of the most tangible exercises I’ve ever heard of (have I mentioned how impressed I am with that idea?) How can we translate that idea to worship and Bible study and really make it meaningful and doable? How can we equip them to lead meaningful, solid and exciting ministry back at home?
I did not realize I would still be rolling down this road. I am glad the discussion is going on.
To answer the whole Willow Creek thing, I think that has been one of the downfalls of the Army. We have tried and failed to be Willow Creek, Saddleback and a Vineyard (sorry Dave). I don't believe we are called to be that.
Motivating the church to service and rockstars to do something is again a retooling of vision and leadership. I think we get overwhelmed by the big picture and we don't start by giving away our lunch or helping college kids move into their dorms, or praying with each other.
The one thing we have not really talked about is the spiritual discipline of prayer. Is that too much to expect from what Drew has characterized as a lazy generation?
As trite as it may sound, when people are disciplined in prayer, it is amazing what avenues of service open up and what radical change happens. How do you think Dave's church got so big? I think it was prayer and discipline.
I would that we may not get a basic movement in the church until there is a return to basic discipline.
For the record, I also don't believe that we're called to be Willow Creek or Saddleback. I hope my post didn't come across that way. I only used them as an example of things that motivate us. And why do they motivate us? Because we can see them working and they're exciting. "Giving their sandwiches away" worked and, unlike Willow Creek, it was something that they could actually replicate back at home which, no doubt, got them thinking about other forms of mission that they could do.
As far as prayer discipline, let the cynics come forth. I've gotten three emails, in the past month, asking for advice. In each of them, the authors warned me that if I wrote back with the "pray about it" advice, there would be consequences.
I understand your call to spiritual discipline, and I agree, but we've been preaching that message (however inafectively) for a couple of decades now. I think that this generation is tired of praying and are ready to get up and do something. Just a thought.
Tim,
I think the issue of doing something will ring hollow without a discipline. Without a base of power, we will have a hard time being true ministers of the Gospel. I have found that once the spiritual disciplines are actually practiced by younger generations, they get up and do something that has meaning.
I do not advocate us being totally monastic but do suggest that we need to deepen discipline. By the way, I don't think the message of spiritual discipline has been really preached. Otherwise we would not have people giving shallow service or no service to God. I think the understanding of most of the church on the spiritual disciplines is so shallow that most of our guys have NO idea about them.
As for my Willow Creek comment,I did not mean to say that you implied we are like Willow Creek. I think the Army has spent way too much time trying to be Willow Creek. We have hired so many consultants and tried so many canned products that we have gotten away from our core values. Those are simply, prayer, adapted evangelism and holiness, which includes a life of spiritual discipline. Interesting when that was our emphasis about 7 or 8 years ago in this territory that the movement of God was unmistakeable. Ministry among all age levels grew and unique ministries sprung up that drew many to God. Younger Generations also felt free to join in ministry.
It cannot be just a do something. But maybe, do something even without discipline is better than doing nothing and feeling like you can't.
After reading through every single comment and being mesmerized into forgetting what the original question was ("truly you all have dizzying intellects"), please indulge my two cents.
"How do you motivate a rock star?" I think of Jesus and the rich young ruler. Jesus spoke hard truths into that young adult's life. Essentially, Jesus answer to his eternal life question was for the young man to do something that would make him seem to be nothing from a worldly perspective. So yes, call young people to sacrifice.
But call them to spiritual discipline as well. I don't think prayer is outdated. I think of the Brooklyn Tab and see the Army in many parts of the world in the same spiritually run-down place as they were before they were desperate enough to do the only thing left: pray.
I've been feeling a call personally from the Lord lately... back to my first love. A heart intimately tied to the Spirit of God will be a missional heart indeed - and that kind of love can develop greatly through prayer, personal and corporate.
Speaking of spiritual discipline and younger generations....Tony Jones's book "The Sacred Way" is really a primer on the disciplines for the emerging church
Not sure I would endorse all of it. I do find it challenging as I am reading it.
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