Confession is good for the heart?
Sorry if you have missed my blog. We have had a couple of very tough days. There has been a tragedy of sorts in our family. Everyone is fine!!! I would rather not get into the situation now, but everyone will come out just fine with some prayer, a great deal of patience and perserverence and a good insurance adjuster! So please pray for my family. We could use it right now. We need the Body to stand with us right now.
Maybe you have not missed my blog. I have. I have a couple of minutes to post now, so I will.
Donald Miller in his book "Blue Like Jazz," shares a story about how he and some of the Christians on his college campus set up a confession booth. The college he attended is known as one of the big party colleges of the country. You would think that Miller and his friends would take the time to minister through traditional means as the college celebrated what best could be described as a week of anarchy. Drugs, drunkedness and other crazy behaviors took over the campus the week they set up the confession booth.
The amazing thing about this confession booth was that it was set up for Christians to confess their sins. Miller and his friends set up this booth to confess and repent publically for Christians conducting the crusades, not being aggressive in their fight of slavery and apartheid and other sinful systems.
I have thought about this idea of repentance and confession. Honestly, I believe I ought to apologize if another Christian hurts someone, even if I had nothing to do with the situation, in the here and now. I must admit, I struggle confessing and repenting for Christian slave owners, since slavery was abolished 100 years prior to my birth. I can see, however, how the spectre of slavery still causes pain in African-Americans. In many ways, I do not think that African-Americans and women have caught up in the country. The playing field is more level, but still not completely. I am not sure that my confession of my forefathers' wrongdoing will help the situation, no matter how sorry I am about it.
I should apologize to Jews for Christians who did little or nothing about the holocaust and who still treat them with distrust and disdain. The same apology needs to go to Muslims as well. I did nothing in the situation, so what will my confession do?
Should I apologize to the poor for the church not fully giving the way we should to them? Should I repent on behalf of the weak response of Christians to famine in Darfur?
I am really struggling about where it all stops. Where does it stop? Honestly, this is not a rant. This is a legitmate question in my mind as a believer. My desire is that all people see Christ in my life. I want to be known as a man of grace and peace. I want people to see a new kind of Christian in me. If my confession will help, then I want to do it. I am conflicted though.
What do we as Christians need to confess and repent for to the world? Will that help? Does the Army organizationally need to confess or repent of anything? Will that help? Does an individual repenting on behalf of people or an organization mean anything?
I don't want you all to be on your personal soapboxes about this. I want you to really think as you answer. I want this to be a sensitive and reasoned debate. So do you think confession is good for the heart?
What do you think?
Maybe you have not missed my blog. I have. I have a couple of minutes to post now, so I will.
Donald Miller in his book "Blue Like Jazz," shares a story about how he and some of the Christians on his college campus set up a confession booth. The college he attended is known as one of the big party colleges of the country. You would think that Miller and his friends would take the time to minister through traditional means as the college celebrated what best could be described as a week of anarchy. Drugs, drunkedness and other crazy behaviors took over the campus the week they set up the confession booth.
The amazing thing about this confession booth was that it was set up for Christians to confess their sins. Miller and his friends set up this booth to confess and repent publically for Christians conducting the crusades, not being aggressive in their fight of slavery and apartheid and other sinful systems.
I have thought about this idea of repentance and confession. Honestly, I believe I ought to apologize if another Christian hurts someone, even if I had nothing to do with the situation, in the here and now. I must admit, I struggle confessing and repenting for Christian slave owners, since slavery was abolished 100 years prior to my birth. I can see, however, how the spectre of slavery still causes pain in African-Americans. In many ways, I do not think that African-Americans and women have caught up in the country. The playing field is more level, but still not completely. I am not sure that my confession of my forefathers' wrongdoing will help the situation, no matter how sorry I am about it.
I should apologize to Jews for Christians who did little or nothing about the holocaust and who still treat them with distrust and disdain. The same apology needs to go to Muslims as well. I did nothing in the situation, so what will my confession do?
Should I apologize to the poor for the church not fully giving the way we should to them? Should I repent on behalf of the weak response of Christians to famine in Darfur?
I am really struggling about where it all stops. Where does it stop? Honestly, this is not a rant. This is a legitmate question in my mind as a believer. My desire is that all people see Christ in my life. I want to be known as a man of grace and peace. I want people to see a new kind of Christian in me. If my confession will help, then I want to do it. I am conflicted though.
What do we as Christians need to confess and repent for to the world? Will that help? Does the Army organizationally need to confess or repent of anything? Will that help? Does an individual repenting on behalf of people or an organization mean anything?
I don't want you all to be on your personal soapboxes about this. I want you to really think as you answer. I want this to be a sensitive and reasoned debate. So do you think confession is good for the heart?
What do you think?
posted by Larry at 5:17 PM
38 Comments:
I really don't know. Thanks for getting me thinking about that. I guess I get so caught up in the "get over it" or "not my fault" thought process I often forget Christ came to be the ultimate confession for humanity to God. I mean, he did nothing wrong...yet he spoke up for us without using words. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is...I don't know what would come from it. I don't know what the other's response would be. What I do know is that we need to be aware of our intentions (as with everything we do) and that we shouldn't act like it never happened or is totally resolved. (For not knowing I sure have a lot to say)... :-0
Perhaps love is the best form of confession? What I mean is that it is easy to say we're sorry for something someone else did. Our "confession" of our forefathers' wrongdoing might better be expressed in opening ourselves up to deep levels of friendship with people who are different to us.
Nicole,
Great thought about Jesus being the ultimate confession.
Phil,
I guess where I struggle with "friendship" being our confession, no matter how deep, is that as the Church, we have done wrong. I see how friendship might change some perspectives about the Church. But I wonder, if the church would be better to confess as a body. Get what I mean?
Larry: Good luck getting the church to confess as a body. I know that sounds cynical, but that was my first thought reading your response to Phil and Nicole. Sad, huh? I know now you are thinking, "so Andi, what can we do to get the church to see themselves as a body needing to confess?" Well, I don't have an answer to that yet...a discussion for another day I guess.
As for your original question, I am with Phil. I see true love and non-judgementalism (is that a word?) as a form of confession. (But isn't the recognition of sin in another a form of judgement? Wow, now I am thinking too much.) I also think that any form of apology for past wrongdoing on the part of our ancestors would just be construed as trite and meaningless. Words without action are empty words.
Cheers!
I missed your blog :) I will definitely keep you and your family in my prayers. As for your post, I'll have to do some thinking before I comment about it.
mesufo,
How would you confess in a way that would be meaningful and representative of the church?
I think mesufo is right...it has to be relational. Because of the general feelings towards "fundementalists", in the US at least, it would seem chessy if we tried any corporate public apology for sins of past generations.
A couple images come to mind when thinking of this...one is PTL Ministries and the crying confession that people still make fun of...and the other is from an Army Conference about 5 years ago. Male leaders were asked to go up front and publicly apologize to the females for years of sins against them. Although I believe the sentiment was correct, it was not handled very well. I'm not sure how it could've been handled better...other than one on one.
Just my ramblings,
Dave
Dave and Mesufo,
So the two of you would not be for public apologies or in the case of African-Americans paying reparations for the past sins against them?
Just wondering. Does anyone else have an opinion?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
My friend Jason Pope and I were involved in a multicultural worship service a couple of years back. (He has mentioned this before, maybe even on this blog - I can't remember). We invited a guest speaker to come in once (for whom I have the greatest respect) and they completely missed the boat by going up to someone of a different color (during the sermon) and saying, "I love you, my black brother."
Well intentioned? I'm sure it was. Still, it was way off. I really do think it comes down to a one on one thing.
I once attended a Promise Keeper's rally where much of the same thing happened - seeking out people of different color just to give them a hug. Superficial. I just think anything corporately in the way of an apology will come off as insincere. We have to maybe change peoples' minds one by one on this one.
Just my thoughts...
Ok, so I don't think throwing money at people is the answer at all (we see how well it works in our society now in our enslaving welfare system--but another topic for another day). Anyway, where would it stop? Do we give reparations to the Japense who either personally or family members were imprisoned during WW2? Or how about the most recent profiling done in America? Should Muslims receive reparations for this? Should women get reparations because for so long we were not allowed to vote and were treated like property?
Sorry, as you can tell, I don't think money is the solution...but I do think that relationship directed by God and open discussion about the issues is what should happen. Ok, enough from me!
Ok, so I guess the gov't did pay some reparations to the Japanese Americans affected by the camps. Still, is money the way to solve the problem?
I've just noticed that you end pretty much every one of your blog entries with "What do you think?" I like the way you set it up and just thought I'd say that I keep coming back here for meaningful discussion on relevant topics. Thanks.
I don't believe we in the present can apologize for the sins of our forebears any more than we can take credit for their victories. I couldn't in good conscience accept a sincere compliment for freeing the people of Germany from the reign of Hitler. It would ring as hollow as the type of "gang confession" we are talking about, in my mind.
I would endorse the method introduced by Surrendered in his initial comment, amplified by others, that the opening of ourselves to relationships seems to be the most effective response.
A friend once told me, "Confession is good for the soul but bad for the reputation!" The statement is "tongue in cheek" of course, but there may be something to the related idea: that sincere vulnerability may be better percieved and responded to by one friend living out a commitment to another, as opposed to one voice speaking for many, saying "We won't be like that anymore...now let's have a group hug."
brettster,
The only problem I have with your comment is that you seem to belittle the feelings of those who feel harm. We might feel the need to get on with it. It is not so easy. Even now, systems set over 400 years ago are still causing many to play catch up in our society.
Someone asked if men ought to apologize to women for voting rights restrictions. YES. In fact, most of you know I still think women are repressed in the Church and society in general.
Do I think there ought to be an aplogy on a formal basis for acts ignored or actively engaged in by the Church. I am leaning more and more that way.
I was at a conference in South Africa when the Army and other churches repented for apartheid and their part in it. None of the leaders had actually started the system. They did not really say much about it. The apology in a word was revolutionary. It started a wave of change in the churches and was in part responsible, I believe, for revival taking place in that nation.
It is interesting that the people commenting on this blog are mostly Anglo-middle class. I hope some of my friends from other traditions and other neighborhoods weigh in. I would love to hear what they have to say.
By the way, Nicole, no one is advocating "throwing money" at a problem. Sometimes though, economic and legislative stimulation is the best way of leveling a playing field. I wonder if you think improving our schools, by funding them better, is thrownig money away. It is interesting that as the war in Iraq broke out, that the historic "No child left behind" act has steadily lost funding. Is it a coincidence then that test scores after making gains in our urban schools are starting to go down again?
Now that's a different issue all together...First, it's do we apologize, how do we do it. Then it's do we give reparations for the wrongs people experienced (or their ancestors). Now we're dealing with funding to schools? Ok, now I'm lost.
Look, let me say that no I don't think giving money to individuals is going to increase their healing or decrease their pain (maybe on the surface..but then what do we learn so we do not repeat the offenses). Secondly, funding of schools I believe is a separate issue. I don't think it's racially motivated (call me naive) but rather economically and politically. Again, I know that we need to advocate for funding to all the schools...but is this where the Army should step in (if we see a need, we should meet it--another question for another day)? Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is we can work to make opportunities available for job training, education, and dialogue...but I still stand that writing someone a check will not make the problem go away!
Nicole,
Apologizing means not only saying you are sorry but doing something about it. Education and economics are two ways of doing something.
If we are truly sorry. Don't we level the playing field. By the way, if you don't think that that bad schools are underfunded because of race, come to any place where schools are in "minority neighborhoods." Race often does = economics. Segregation is probably still alive in insidious ways in our country. Our schools and economic disparity are symptoms of sin. The systems being under funded are just a symptom of an underlying sin.
So there is the connection. Confessing and restitution go hand in hand.
I guess the difficulty in my mind comes in the question that has already been asked: "Who are we confessing or apologizing to, and why did we leave (fill in group here) out?" It could take a while making the list, and as we get caught up in checking off the reparations we're making (have you seen "My Name Is Earl"?) we are missing opportunities to affect real change on the way the world views the Church, one skeptic at a time. That will take a while, too, to be sure. But it seems less likely to be misconstrued.
Maybe the skeptics get won over by seeing repentance. If repenting to a whole group wins one over, isn't it worth it?
Well, I guess we can agree to disagree about the money issue (must I discuss the "gift cards" distributed after Katrina--but I digress). Anyway, practically I beleive that people need to be given tools and direction to fight the inequalities in our society. I'm not saying give them a pamphlet, but I do mean we should come alongside and help them make good choices. I believe its about choices, this is something we tell and preach to our clients and corps members daily. What you choose to do with the choices is up to you (regardless of your debt situation, your housing situation, your education situation). There are opportunities..but many are not making the choice to take them (this is people from every race, economic status, and geographic location).
Ugh. When I first read your post, I just walked away. That was several days ago. But now I’m back to be a part of the torture that is the “should we apologize” discussion.
If you read my blog at all, you’ll already know that yes, I believe the church owes quite a few apologies to quite a few groups. Including to the lost world in general.
Hi, we’re the church, and we’re sorry that we used scripture to justify segregation in our churches back in the 60’s. We’re sorry that some of our brothers and sisters have used scripture to justify the bombing of abortion clinics and killing of young women going to those abortion clinics. We’re sorry that we’ve used scripture to justify the backing of Israel, no matter how unjust Israel’s actions have been. We’re sorry that we supported a group in the 80’s that wiped out as many as 800 men, women and children at Palestinian refugee camps. We’re sorry that we’ve preached hate when it came to the issue of aids. We’re sorry that we’ve ex-communicated and emotionally abused homosexuals. And we’re sorry, God, for claiming the name “Christ”, while spreading so much hate in this world. Forgive us for these sins and also for not dealing with so many of our other sins while attempting to cast judgement and condemnation on the world around us. We have approached evangelism in a sinful way, in a shameful manner, and all at the degradation of a holy and loving God. Forgive us for learning short verses as a means of backing up what we want, rather than entire passages that would teach us the truth. Forgive us.
And while one on one apologies are certainly the way to go, let us not rule out group apologies. Certainly it would be hard to pull off in a meaningful way, but it is possible. The problem is, it actually has to be meant. And you, Larry, could not apologize on behalf of the Salvation Army, but the General could. And it would be meaningful. And my catholic friend down the road could not apologize on behalf of catholics all over the world, but the Pope could. And Phil could not apologize on behalf of the religious right, but Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson could.
It can be done, but either the entire church would have to rise up, or those with the authority to apologize on behalf of a large number of people would have to be willing to do just that.
And here’s where I’d rather stop and not get into it, but I will throw in my two pence worth. Reparations have, so far, led to the decay of those societies in which reparations have been paid. Call them by any name you want, but reparations paid to native Americans (in the way of free land, free allowances, no taxes, income from casinos, and being funded in such a way that they did not have to work) has led to the near death of an entire race of people. And, the same can be said of welfare. Hand a man a fish. We’ve been handing away fishes for three decades and are clearly not making any headway.
And, before Larry tries to shoot ME down with “what about funding for education”, that’s not reparations, that’s equality. That’s not free handouts, thereby taking the need to act responsibly out of people’s hands. That’s an opportunity. An opportunity that anybody living in America, no matter where, deserves. And, as a youth worker in the inner city, I believe it to be the greatest statement for equality, and the best opportunity we could give.
it appears i'm on the religious right, now. :p
Nicole,
We can all point to anecdotal evidence. Statistics and studies over the last 50 years or so have indicated that "choices" are not always available in this great land of ours. You cannot choose where you are born. Sure you can choose not to have sex, but you cannot choose not to be born out of wedlock. Statistics show that in the African-American and White communities, the issue of out of wedlock births contributes to poverty, abuse, lower educational standards, and higher crime rate. It is easy for us to preach choice when we don't and have not lived there.
My point is we as the church have not done enough. We have talked about poverty and then said, make a good choice. Our so-called social work is more of a preachment often with a jaded and cynical "they are ripping off the system" attitude than it is relationship building and loving unconditionally. Should we apologize for that??? YOU BET!!! Jesus did not tell people to go make a good choice, except when they could. Rich young ruler, Pharisees and others had the means to make choices. They did. They made bad ones. Instead to poor and downtrodden he took the compassionate route and instead of accusing them of being lazy, He actually helped them and educated them by instilling and living out kingdom values.
No one condones throwing money at situations. I also don't condone the thinking it is all about choices, because the science and statistics, don't bear that out.
Tim, you state it well education is the key. It is a great leveler of the field. Unfortunately, we have chosen to pork and war. I am not anti-Bush on this. The blame lays at the feet of all politcos and those lobbyists including the Church. Wouldn't it be nice to take some of the Defense Department budget, just a 5 billion (by the way that would make our defense budget just under 400 billion) and give it to people, not necessarily the governments who would set up great schools in our poorest neighborhoods? Maybe then....just maybe people could begin to make good choices.
Maybe that is where we need to apologize and then really do something about it.
In the UK right now, the government has developed a programme whereby local organizations come up with a chunk of money to head up a school. The government then gives them an even BIGGER chunk of money to help fund the school and get it off the ground. The organizations are then in charge of that school. They develop it’s structure, programming, and ethos, as well as staff it. One of our youth ministries over here (Oasis if you’re familiar) has recently put forth the funding for one of these schools. Oasis is still in the process of writing its ethos, etc,. but I do know that the school will come complete with youth workers. Wow!
In light of that, the Army has also decided to get involved with this idea and is currently looking to fund, and therefore administrate, three schools within the UK.
I am so excited about this idea! As you said, education is the great leveller!
Ok, so that wasn't my last post...oops. As I stated in the previous posting "I'm not saying give them a pamphlet, but I do mean we should come alongside and help them make good choices." To clarify...I'm not saying send them off feeling like a loser for making bad choices, but if they aren't given direction then how will they know? If my daughter keeps putting her finger in the electrical outlet and I do nothing to teach her not to do it...it's both of our problem (mine for not addressing it and her for continuing to do the same thing expecting a different result). I am not disagreeing that education is one of the most importatnt keys to increasing people's available choices...I'm not calling people lazy, they just need to be brought into accountability. When someone comes in for monthly food bank...they receive from us financial and personal counseling. If you're spending half of your monthly money on bingo and cigarettes I'm going to point it out (it's just an example-I'm not stereotyping ok).
Let me say, first of all, to join the cynical club. I get your frustration and doubt. In fact, I join you in your frustration and doubt.
In this case, however, it would mean something because, though some would still choose to persecute, as a denomination, we would be separating ourselves from them. We would be making a public statement that said,
“For too many years, we as a denomination have not stood up against this. And, by not standing up against it, we have supported it. AND, in some cases, we have participated in the abuse of these groups. But today, I speak on behalf of a denomination to say, no more! Today we ask the forgiveness of these groups and pledge to you that you will not face persecution at the hands of our church again.”
I’m not a speech writer, and the above caption is only a portion of what needs to be said, but, just as the President speaks to other countries on behalf of our country (like it or not), there are people who have the authority to speak on behalf of large groups of people. And the General is certainly one of them. And I can promise you that it would mean something.
It’s not enough to just stop participating in the abuse. We’ve also got to be willing to stand against it.
Tim, Ever thought of running for the Oklahoma legislature:)
Thanks Everett for tuning me into the bloggin world. Interesting stuff.
I recently took a bunch of kids from my youth group away for Feb. vacation. This particular group of kids are seeking and I wanted to take them away to get real intentional with them. Out of all the discussions we had, forgiveness was a hot topic. Many of these kids come from rough backgrounds and they find it hard to believe that they can be forgiven. Like they think they are any different than any of us were or maybe are.
The one thing that stood out was that forgiving sins of the past is a necesarry part of moving on. For some of these kids it may mean forgiving a parent, a friend, or etc. that will lead to their ultimate freedom in Christ.
I also have experienced that while spending five years planting a chruch, it is very important to understand the past in our community. Let's be real, there are principalites that rule and these can be causing us not to grow, eventhough we can do something about it. I believe that the name of Jesus is greater and maybe all it takes is to speak his name over these principalites and this could in turn bring change. I am not a big fan of big showy ordeals, but in private and through the leading of the Holy Spirit maybe God plants on our hearts to ask for forgiveness to break down a wall that can lead the way to him taking new ground.
What the heck, I would pray for forgiveness for the sins of the past if God promised to move afterward, wouldn't you?
I disagree.
As a group, we have abused groups of people. If each of us had a relationship with each of those people, sure, make up for it individually. But that is not the case and the entire world is watching. Individual responsability must work alongside group responsability.
Larry. Interesting thoughts of yours and comments of others on a wide range of subjects. ( I still wonder why homosexuality is a sin, while eating shellfish in the previous chapter is also an "abomination", but certainly allowed.) But that's off the mark.
I understand the old saw that "confession is good for the soul", but it tain't true all the time. Case in point: A few years ago my son pulled the fire alarm in his high school. The autocratic dweeb of a principal made a list of all the athletes in classes in the general vicinity and called each parent advising them that he thought their kid did it, and that unless the kid admitted guilt (confessed)all would be punished, and the coppers called in. But if confession did occur, only detention would follow. My boy finally admitted that he did it. I STRONGLY suggested that he 'fess up. I made all the "right" moral arguments. He finally did on his own, but the principal suspended him for the second semester of his senior year and he wasn't allowed to graduate with his class.
I've been troubled ever since. That incident put the lie to "honesty is the best policy", and I can guarantee that neither of us feel "good in the soul" with that confession.
And how can "the church" ever apologize for the turmoil, pain, suffering and death we've already rained upon Iraq, based on lies, mis-representation and Machiavellian manipulation of at least the evangelical church, be they conservative christians or the religious right..... ?
As far as reparations against African-Americans is concertned, maybe this duplicitous administration and it's "put-your-foot-in-your-mouth-president" (not to reveal any bias in my thinking) could simply start by fully funding the "No Child Left Behind" program, or church leaders (even not in the poor urban areas most at risk)demanding that the administration put its money where its mouth is.
But if the church, or the Army were to do that, I'm certain it would be put on a series of real and/or subtle black-lists - - so to speak - - that would include lists made up by other brother and sister churches.
Maybe the Army should apologize to all its advanced women musicians over the past decades who were systematically ostracized, excluded from, at least, the NY Staff Band....
I'm not at all certain how a "corporate entity" like the Army could ever get its act together enough to apologize for anything.
And finally, how could I let this "first-ever-blog-response" go by without raising my own most personal demonizing and vexing moral question: "Would Jesus have gone to Vietnam? If yes, why; if not, why not?"
John,
You and Tim have now formed an alliance. You two could make up the anti-evangelical and anti-USA club :)
As far as your last question, you took the topic for my next post. Honestly, you did. Now I may need to think up a new post. I was holding that one out not as a throw in but an all out discussion.
As far as confession, you are right it must be in small steps. By the way, since you left there are many ladies in the NYSB. I think there are about 10 now at last count.
Even with the fire alarm, if JB had not confessed and been found out in an investigation, he probably would have gone through the court system AND been suspended. Sometimes you have to take your medicine. Even though that penalty was harsh, confession does bring consequences and pain.
As far as the Administration goes, it is not much different from the last one and sadly, probably the one to come.
Dear Major Larry,
1. (Doesn't it seem as if I'm really organized when I start with a 1.?)
I'll try anyway.
1. To equate this US mis-administration with the last one is prostitution of the equation concept... But you are right, it'll probably be the same or similiar with a new administration. It is VERY depressing....
2. About my kid getting "caught" by the coppers after setting off the school fire alarm and thus "paying his dues", I have to say that there was no way he would have been "found out". This is a real strange one for me Larry, I do feel "good" that he 'fessed up, but he was stabbed in the back by the principal changing the punishment so that it really didn't fit the crime.....Part of it was due to the fact - - and of this I'm very certain - - because the guy knew I worked for the teacher's union, and they were in difficult negotiations and our paths had crossed before.
3. I don't know Tim, so I don't know the depth or roots of your "seen" alliance! :) It's a mite difficult to participate not "knowing" other parties - - sort of like a double-edged sword though, because there are advantages.
But this blogging stuff, taken seriously, IS potentially 'hard' work. It's clear that a number of your blogging audience do take it seriously and give it the thought it deserves/requires.
4. I know the Army has let women in the staff band....don't know when they started, but it's good. Funny thing, I recall my wife telling me that many women of that by-gone era did not think that women SHOULD be allowed in!!
I remember participating in "bra-burning" events in support of women's rights, and found it strangely offensive in later years when I would be lumped in with generic "men" by the second or third generation of women advocates not knowing the (small) part I played in their emancipation, so to speak :)
5. My blog title, or going way back, the title I wanted to use as a discussion forum was going to be "Misty Morning Musings". And I'm not sure if you meant that the next blog you were going to do, was, in fact, my question about Vietnam and Jesus.
I know it could be expanded, or the question(s) altered a bit, or even made current, but I wanted to distill my thoughts and 'moral thinking' to Vietnam BECAUSE it really is in the distant past, and somewhat free of political taintings. I believe it's widely agreed upon that that war was one we shouldn't have waged.
Kissinger recently wrote that Bush #1 lost to Billy-the-Clinton because he ended his war "too soon" before the election. He said that he and Nixon purposely didn't try to end the conflict until AFTER the election. And given the plethora of WWJD paraphrenalia, I think, for me, the essential question remains:
Would Jesus have gone to Vietnam? If yes, why; if not, why not?
This leads to other questions I have, but I'd be interested in what some of your fellow, essentially Christian bloggers I assume, think about the question.
Not that I want to usurp your blogging space. :) Drive on McDuff!
6. One last thought on Confessions: It seems easier to ask JC for forgiveness for specific things than it does to go to another person and confess something that could definitely hurt them, despite how sorry and contrite one may be....know what I mean?
Just some thoughts,
Pax,
JB
I co-lead a group for women who had suffered some kind of abuse, with a Mennonite therapist. After about 6 weeks, he stopped the group one day and said, "as a man, I must ask you to forgive me for what men have done to you" - the women couldn't believe that he would do that - and neither could I. But it was so powerful, and a real turning point for the work of the group. I am wrestling with how to live in both a more confessional, repentant spirit, and a more forgiving spirit, being unwilling to blame.
Jay Bee,
Shorter novels please ;)
hs,
Thanks for the powerful illustration. I think I have my answer.
Uh, I'd really like to defend myself against Larry's "Tim is anti-American and anti-evangelical" comment, because it’s not true.
Xtreme sports participants describe themselves, not as having a death wish, but as having a life wish.
I would describe myself, not as anti-american and anti-evangelical, but as pro America and pro evangelical. What the heck is the definition of “evangelical”? “Of, relating to, being a protestant church that founds its teachings on the gospel.” Yeah. I’m pro that! In fact, let’s get back to that! And, as far as America goes, there is not formal definition, so I look to the constitution and the declaration of independence which both promise equality for all mankind. Furthermore, America was founded by groups of people (among others) who were desperate to live in Peace and even to distance themselves from a government that desired to claim the whole world for its empire.
Suggesting that I’m anti-American and anti-evangelical is the same as suggesting that you (Larry) are anti-salvation army. Yet I’LL BET you would describe yourself as somebody who would like to get back to the original and radical roots of the Army when it was a movement that fought for justice and the right for anybody and everybody to be embraced by this gospel that we call the good news.
To suggest that I am anti-American and anti-evangelical is to suggest that the right wing movement now owns America and the evangelical church. I REFUSE to accept this! Why should the Devil have all the good music???!!! Missional Christians are taking back the church!
Wait a minute, did I just see Larry make a plea for brevity?
;o)
pete,
you got me!!!
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