Redemptive violence?
I was recently heartened to see the General of The Salvation Army call us to prayer for peace in the Middle East. I also recently encouraged to see his support in "The Officer" for non-violence. This is a positive step.
Many of you know that our son has worked as an intern this summer at the Israeli Consulate in Boston. It has been an interesting and challenging summer for him. He has been in the middle of interesting conversations and has had to prepare press briefings for the consulate staff. He does not really agree with Israel's response. He, like me, is not really sure how they should have responded.
In the middle of the conflict I had conversation with many Christian friends who were actually glad that Israel gave such a strong response to the attack on their sovereignty. "They don't mess around." one friend said. "They always hit back harder. They step it up." I was surprised at the reaction. I am not sure that Jesus would have been glad for the response.
As I looked at pictures today of Northern Israel and Lebanon, the death and destruction sadden me. Pictures of war are always sad.
I had another friend ask, "If a terrorist set off a nuclear device in our subways should we use nuclear weapons in response?" My Christian brother seemed to advocate this as justified. I simply could not bring myself to think about this as a Christian response.
Often, I have the same type of discussion regarding the death penalty with my friends and colleagues. The term that is often bantered about is "redemptive violence." In other words, good people must stamp out evil even if it means putting someone to death to stop them. This includes "just war" theology.
Jesus taught about turning the other cheek. (By the way, his teaching is not meant to act in a cowardly way. It actually means to stare your attacker in the face and almost dare them to look you in the eye and hit you again.) And with His teachings about living and dying by the sword and turning swords into plowshares, I don't see how we can support the doctrine of redemptive violence.
No, I have never had a loved one murdered. I have had people I love go through some very horrific experiences at the hands of violent and sick people. It still did not enrage me enough to want to kill them.
Cardinal Bernadine spoke of a "seamless garment of life." In other words, if life is sacred at conception, it is sacred until the end. Humans have no right to take a life.
I am sorting through this whole doctrine of redemptive violence. I am open for discussion. I am thinking that Jesus calls us to be people of peace.
What do you think?
Many of you know that our son has worked as an intern this summer at the Israeli Consulate in Boston. It has been an interesting and challenging summer for him. He has been in the middle of interesting conversations and has had to prepare press briefings for the consulate staff. He does not really agree with Israel's response. He, like me, is not really sure how they should have responded.
In the middle of the conflict I had conversation with many Christian friends who were actually glad that Israel gave such a strong response to the attack on their sovereignty. "They don't mess around." one friend said. "They always hit back harder. They step it up." I was surprised at the reaction. I am not sure that Jesus would have been glad for the response.
As I looked at pictures today of Northern Israel and Lebanon, the death and destruction sadden me. Pictures of war are always sad.
I had another friend ask, "If a terrorist set off a nuclear device in our subways should we use nuclear weapons in response?" My Christian brother seemed to advocate this as justified. I simply could not bring myself to think about this as a Christian response.
Often, I have the same type of discussion regarding the death penalty with my friends and colleagues. The term that is often bantered about is "redemptive violence." In other words, good people must stamp out evil even if it means putting someone to death to stop them. This includes "just war" theology.
Jesus taught about turning the other cheek. (By the way, his teaching is not meant to act in a cowardly way. It actually means to stare your attacker in the face and almost dare them to look you in the eye and hit you again.) And with His teachings about living and dying by the sword and turning swords into plowshares, I don't see how we can support the doctrine of redemptive violence.
No, I have never had a loved one murdered. I have had people I love go through some very horrific experiences at the hands of violent and sick people. It still did not enrage me enough to want to kill them.
Cardinal Bernadine spoke of a "seamless garment of life." In other words, if life is sacred at conception, it is sacred until the end. Humans have no right to take a life.
I am sorting through this whole doctrine of redemptive violence. I am open for discussion. I am thinking that Jesus calls us to be people of peace.
What do you think?
posted by Larry at 8:41 PM
12 Comments:
You raise a good question, that many Christians and non-believers are thinking about today.
It's all about reactive violence. If there is violence done, there must be response, otherwise people think that its ok. That is the thought of most people.
But how do we respond when one of our loved ones is hurt of killed, someone in our congregation is raped, or our country is is bombed?
I admit that sometimes I am on the side of justice must be sought. I look at the horror on the TV in our world today, Israel and Lebanon, genocide in African countries, these are situations in our world that must be address by the world at large.
But in the end, we can only respond in prayer because we are usually outside the situation of being able to do something physically.
I hope that this made sense, it is a hard post to respond too. But I wonder about it often, because I am a result of a brutal crime, in which my family chose to react to the outcome rather the the cause.
Thank God!
I struggle with this as well. In the OT God instructed Israel to destroy cities and kill people.
For example, in 1 Sam 15:3 the Lord said “go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"
Another is Num 21:2-3 and there are more . . .
So, when our freedom and our safety is at risk should we as a nation not respond? I’ve always had the feeling that there are times when you just need to fight (even if Jesus never did) . . . however, I’m not so sure that’s the right answer . . .
When you find the “cut and dried” answer let me know.
Good post.
Blessings,
Bret
Your blogs make my head hurt! (I honestly think it has something to do with the white on black.)
Are there ever clear cut answers to questions like this? I'm not sure. Not to say that we shouldn't think about it, but, do you think that we can get an absolutey safe response to this? I think of "the truth will set you free" We don't even know the truth anymore.
I think it was one of the speakers from OTE last year who told the story of the young boy who responded to his younger brothers abuser with violence. I don't think violence is right, but my heart ached for that wee boy.
I don't know, I really don't know. None of it is right. There are always consequneces of sin, disciplines for us after but I don't know in this case. To have a nuclear bomb dropped on you is extreme. None of it is of God; scripture tells us to turn the other check - so that means we never protect ourselves?
Brett and Mhairi,
I have some questions to your questions. Is our current national policy of preemptive strikes in line with Christian teaching?
Did Jesus ever protect Himself?
L
Larry,
Not sure if this counts or not, but this one may be an example:
Luke 4:28-30 “All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29 They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff. 30 But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.”
I’m not sure if we can compare what Jesus lived and taught with the examples I’ve mentioned above or not . . . When Jesus said he came to “fulfill the law” he meant that he came to “offer an accurate interpretation” so that it could be understood and lived out. To “abolish the law” meant to misinterpret it so as to mislead people . . .” What that means is that Jesus intends for us to keep and follow OT teachings . . .
But the war / defense thing may be apples and oranges . . .
What do you think?
Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek when the attack was on us personally, but are we to turn the other cheek when someone else is attacked and is helpless to defend themselves?
Is a violent response OK if my children are being hurt?
All parents have a built-in drive to protect their young. Is this sin nature that needs to be subdued or is this built in by God because He has designed parents to fulfill several roles, one of which being protector?
Did we discuss this once before?
Jim,
I think protection can be given without violence. Maybe you take the pain for the one who is being attacked so they don't have to.
Larry,
You make a good point . . . But what about preventing the violent from causing pain again to others? You can only step in front of so many bullets.
If every Christian took the place of every person suffering it wouldn't end suffering . . . it would only give the oppressors control.
Those who oppress would continue to oppress . . . who would protect the oppressed then?
At this point, I’m kind of siding with Jim.
Bret,
Ghandi changed a country through non-violence. It only took one student to stand in front o f a tank in China and the world rallied. Change began and continues. It took a few students in E. Germany to think their way through to begin to bring down oppressors a few years later a wall came down that was the sign of oppression for years. If you give hope people naturally gravitate to it.
It may take one act of courageously breakng the cycle to break oppression. Arch Bishop Romero gave his life and the Sandnistas fell in Nicaragua.
I love this quote by Thomas Merton "At the root of all war is fear: not so much the fear that men have of one another as the fear they have of everything. It is not merely that they do not trust one another; they do not even trust themselves. ... They cannot trust anything because they have ceased to believe in God."
Joe,
I am not sure your exegesis is accurate. Taken in the whole of his life Jesus taught and acted peacefully.
People have always pointed to his pushing around the money changers, but HE did not KILL them. In fact, his very words "Those who live by the sword...." Scripture also dreams of a day when swords are changed to farming instruments.
There is quite a difference between restraint, being tough and killing.
The script however, with Jesus isn't finished yet. There will be a return visit. What will that be like for those who never knew Him?
Larry.
Sorry for not "being-in-touch" via your always interesting blogs.
I searched during a few quiet moments today and re-found your re-started blog!!! Thanks.
Can you send me via snail mail the article by the General in "The Officer"? I would really enjoy reading it. I told your wife that I was going to try my hand at writing to this new General to see if he would answer some of my questions, although people like Billy Graham, Chuck Colson, Dr Dobson, Pat Robertson and their ilk have repeatedly ignored my sincere seekings in the past.....
I wonder how all our "petitioning through prayer" will possibly ever change things if it isn't in God's Plan to have things changed? Does the prayer of one have any greater impact than the prayers of a (Salvation) Army of people if it is counter to His plan?
And, when things don't go the way we pray, how does that square with, say, John 15:7, among others, like 1 John 3:22?
Pax
JB
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